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Everything
you wanted to know about the 41 Long Colt
(and probably more)
by Harry O
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Contents
* How I got started with the 41 Long Colt
* How to form low-cost 41 Long Colt cases
* Reloading data
* Where to find components
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How I got started with the 41 Long Colt
It all started when I found an Ideal 310 nutcracker reloading tool for the 41
Colt in the corner of an old gunshop. This was an old one with steel handles, 5
dies, a hole in the handle for the case instead of a removable ring, and was
stamped "41 Colt" on the side. It was not very expensive, so I bought
it. Little did I know what I was getting into.
The 41 Long Colt cartridge was created in 1877 for Colt's double action "Thunderer"
revolver. The front of the bullet was about 0.406"OD, approximately the
same diameter as the barrel grooves and the O.D. of the case. The bullet
lubrication was outside of the case. The base of the bullet was smaller in
diameter at 0.388"OD to fit inside the case. This is known as a
"heel-base" bullet. In other words, the bullet was a lot like a really
big .22LR.
After a while, Colt reduced the entire diameter of the bullet to 0.386" and
lengthened the brass case in order to put the bullet and its lubrication inside
the case. The bore of the revolver was reduced slightly to match the diameter of
the more popular 38-40 at 0.401" groove diameter. The soft lead bullet was
made with a large hollow base like Civil War Minie'-Balls. The intent was for
the base of the bullet to expand with the pressure of the gunpowder to grip the
rifling. Surprisingly, it worked pretty well. Although it will never be a target
gun, the accuracy is adequate for close-range self-defense.
After a while, I ran across a fairly cheap Colt 1892 Army/Navy revolver in 41LC,
so naturally I had to buy it (to use the reloading dies I already owned of
course). It was in poor shape (which is why it was cheap), but it cleaned up
pretty good. There is still some pitting in the bore, but the rifling is fairly
strong. Then I had to find bullets and brass. Bullets were not much of a
problem. Several places sell them (sources listed below). All seem to be made
from the same type of Rapine hollow-base mold so the only difference is cost and
how fast they fill the order.
Obtaining brass was something entirely different. Starline has said that they
are going to produce 41LC brass "soon" for at least the last 5 or 6
years. Nothing firm yet. Rumors are that they are nearer to producing it, but
the projected price (if and when it ever arrives) is expected to be
approximately 50 cents each. Not cheap. Many places sell Bertram brass from
Australia. It costs about $1.00 per case wherever you find it. Original fired
brass usually runs a 50 to 75 cents on the auction boards and varies greatly in
quality. A fair percentage of the used brass is balloon-head, black powder
brass. Stay away from it unless it is dirt cheap (not likely) -- much of it is
brittle and it is heartbreaking to see a 50 to 75 cent case break in two the
first time it is sized. Don't even bother with anything that has green
(verdigris) on it. Also, the primer pocket in a balloon-head case gets loose
very quickly.
There are a few places that sell brass made from 30-30 cases for nearly the same
cost as the Bertram. Doing this yourself requires a heavy
forming-die/bench-press and also a lathe too machine down the rim. Do NO try to
form a 30-30 case with ordinary loading dies. They will stick (regardless of the
lube) and may damage your very expensive and hard to find 41LC dies. All loaded
cartridges are collectors items. They seem to be running $1.25 to $2.00 for
shootable cartridges right now. Except for a small run made by Winchester in the
1960's-70's (for L.M. Burney Co. of Texas. But don't call -- they have been sold
out for a long time), the last 41LC cartridges were made in the 1920's-30's.
I started looking at case dimensions and noticed that the .38 Special case is
almost exactly the same length as the 41LC. The rim thickness and rim diameter
are almost exactly the same, too. However, the case diameter is too small by
0.026". I wondered if it would be possible to fireform .38 Special brass to
41LC size. The advantage of this is that the .38 Special brass is dirt cheap,
you can use standard loading dies to form them, and do not have to machine the
rim afterwards. I tried several experiments before I found out how to make .38
Special and .357 Magnum brass work.
Incidentally, I have since found out that the exact length of a 41 Long Colt
case is unimportant. All the 41LC handguns I have inspected have straight
through chambers. There is no throat. Only the case diameter and rim diameter
are important. I have a selection of original factory brass now that ranges from
0.932" long (for heel-base bullets) to 1.132" long (for hollow-base
bullets). Because the 41 Colt chambers were bored straight through, anything
that is loaded shorter than the cylinder will work. For example, loading a
"normal" length 1.132" case with a heel-base bullet makes a
cartridge that is too long to fit in an 1892 Colt cylinder. However, I have some
virgin Remington/Peters brass that was originally manufactured at 1.010"
long. When it is loaded with either a hollow-base or heel-base bullet, the
finished cartridge will fit the gun. In addition, a few of my factory cases have
pockets for large pistol primers instead of the usual small pistol primers.
Evidently, there were not very many standards for this cartridge.
Anyway, the following is what I did to form low cost 41 Long Colt brass.
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How to form low-cost 41 Long Colt cases
1. Start with .38 Special brass or shorten .357 Magnum brass. I used a Lee .38
Special trimmer in a power drill to speed it up (the difference between the
length of the 41LC and .38 Special cases is only .030" and after expanding
it is virtually zero).
2. Anneal the brass. I did this by inserting a long 5/16" steel rod in the
mouth of the case, holding the case upside down, and rotating it in a propane
torch flame starting from the center of the case and working toward the case
mouth. When there was a noticeable change in color (brownish starting to turn
dull cherry red -- bright cherry red or orange is too much), I dropped it in a
bucket of water to stop the heat from migrating completely through the base
(head) of the cartridge. Even if the head softens, this is not particularly
dangerous at 41LC pressures. The primer pocket will expand on firing and make
the case useless in one or two reloadings. After annealing, parts of the case
will be discolored (brownish). This has no effect on
it and will lessen with each cleaning.
3. I put a .38 Special case holder in my press and screwed in a Redding 41LC
neck expanding die (my wife bought me a Redding set for Christmas). The Ideal
310 nutcracker will work, but it is MUCH easier
4. Put the annealed case in the
case holder and raise it into the neck expanding die. Do it gently and it will
expand straight and even from 0.357" ID to 0.386" ID in the front
1/2" of case. Remove it from the die.
5. Roll the case on a flat surface. If it did not expand evenly all around, you
will see it "wiggle" as it rolls. If it wiggles, throw it
out. The primer will not line up with the firing pin if it did not expand
straight. There are VERY few crooked cases with the Redding die, but the Ideal
nutcracker turns out more mistakes. It is because the hole for the 41LC case in
the handle is larger than the .38 Special case and the case "tilts"
easily. This is not a defect of the Ideal 310. It loads 41LC cases perfectly.
That is what it was designed for. It was not designed for expanding .38 Special
cases.
6. Prime the cases as usual. Use a .38 Special shellholder.
7. Add powder. I use 3.3gr of Bullseye in my 1892 Colt.
8. Seat a bullet. I use 185gr Rapine HB-RNL bullets which are available from
several sources. You cannot seat it as deeply as normal. The neck expander is
not long (deep) enough, so the expanded part of the case is too short. There are
three lube grooves in the Rapine bullets. You can seat it so that two lube
grooves are inside the case and one is outside the case. I just screw out the
bullet seating bolt a little, but leave the crimp setting in place.
9. They look strange when you are done loading them. There is a larger diameter
bullet and case in the front and a smaller diameter case behind that. Don't
worry. You can load them in the cylinder without spacers in the rear or pointing
the gun upward or anything else unusual. Just load them into the gun like you
would any normal 41LC case and shoot them. If they are straight, they will fire,
and they seem to be about as accurate as "real" 41LC cartridges even
in the "pre-fireformed" stage.
10. What you have now is an expanded (fireformed) .38 Special case that looks
just like a real 41LC case in the front 3/4 of the case. It gently necks down to
a standard .38 Special rim in the rear 1/4. It is sort of like a large extractor
groove for a rimless case. The 41LC is not really rimless, but it does have a
VERY small rim. There is no longer any hint of where the neck expanding stopped
and the fireforming started.
11. Reload them as normal 41LC cases from now on. Use a .38 Special shellholder.
BTW, in spite of what the reloading companies say, a .38 Special shellholder
will not accept a REAL 41LC case. You have to use a motodremel tool to open up
the inside slightly (you don't need to do this for the formed cases). Don't
overdo it. The 41LC rim is very small.
12. I have not had any cases fail during firing using this method. However, if
you wish to do the same, you do it at your own risk (just like handloading is
done at your own risk). At this writing, I have reloaded the first ones I
fireformed ten or more times. Like any case, it will eventually crack at the
neck from repeatedly forming, neck expanding, and crimping. However, it looks
like they will last a long time at 41LC pressures. I have not had any let go
(split) near the base.
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Reloading data
Reloading the 41LC is actually pretty easy once you find all the components.
After all, it is a straight-forward, straight-sided case. Much of the reloading
information I have on the 41LC is from two very old Lyman reloading manuals. I
have only found a couple of mentions in shooting books about loading the 41LC,
but they match the reloading manual. Although I went up to the maximum in
stages, I went back to a little less (4.5gr for the Unique and 3.3gr for the
Bullseye) for the 1892DA.
The Unique load gave poor accuracy. That was surprising to me. Unique has always
been "old reliable" for me. The best groups were about 3-1/2" to
4" at 15 yards offhand and were high and a little to the left. I believe
that Unique is too slow to expand the hollow base of the bullet quickly enough.
Bullseye was better, in-between 2-1/2" and 3", and a little high on
the black. I also tried using plastic shot buffer as a filler with the Bullseye.
If you use filler make sure there is enough so that the bullet compresses the
filler when the bullet is seated. If this is not done, the filler and powder
will mix with handling, leading to variable ignition up to and including
hangfires. Also reduce the powder charge whenever you use filler. The weight of
the filler adds to the weight of the bullet when figuring pressure. This is an
important consideration with an old gun. Anyway, there was no noticeable
difference in accuracy between the loads with and without filler
I have also fired a slightly compressed case of FFFg black powder in it. I
didn't weigh them once I found the right size scoop -- one that fills the case
to where the bullet compresses the powder slightly when it is seated. Black
powder gave by far the best accuracy and the most recoil of any of the 41LC load
I tried (this is with old balloon-head cases). It's best groups were only
2" at 15 yards offhand and they were centered in the black. I tried a few
groups at 25 yards, but this gun and cartridge are not well suited for anything
more than 15 yards. It is not a target gun or a hunting gun, but it is certainly
adequate for close range self defense. But more importantly, it is fun to shoot.
More fun than it has a right to be. I don't understand why, but maybe it is
because it shouldn't work at all. But it does work and it works surprisingly
well.
The amount of BP that 41LC cases can hold varies considerably. From tests, the
different kinds of brass hold the following amounts of FFFg BP. However, keep in
mind that the amount of BP will vary depending on how much pressure you use to
compress the powder. Be very careful not to damage the hollow base of the soft
lead bullet, though.
1. Original balloon-head BP case (0.932") for heel-base bullets = 18.5gr.
2. Original balloon-head BP case (1.132") for hollow-base bullets = 21.5gr.
3. Original solid-head BP case (1.132") for hollow-base bullets = 19.5gr.
4. Formed .38 Special cases for hollow-base bullets = 18.0 gr.
5. Formed .357 Magnum cases (unshortened) for hollow-base bullets = 20.5gr.
The unshortened .357 Magnum case is longer than the originals, but will fit some
41LC handguns because the chambers are bored straight through. However, the OAL
loaded length must fit in the cylinder. That means it won't fit the 1892 Colt
(and probably not the Thunderer). It will fit an 1873 Colt, Colt clone, or any
handgun made with those dimensions. I am currently having a Uberti Bisley
Colt-clone in 38-40 changed over to 41LC. The gunsmith is rechambering a .357
Magnum cylinder to 41LC. The unshortened .357 Magnum cases should fit it and
come close to holding the original amount of BP.
The only problem with BP is the cleaning. It is filthy. I highly recommend using
special "BP" cleaning solutions instead of the usual oil-based
solvents to clean BP. BP also not welcome in some indoor ranges. In fact, it got
me kicked out of an indoor range once and the owner eyed me suspiciously when
shooting Unique and Bullseye for several visits afterward. Pyrodex P was between
smokeless and BP when it came to fouling, but did not have BP's accuracy.
Incidentally, the accuracy tests were made with real (original) solid-head 41LC
brass, not fireformed brass, although I have not seen any noticeable difference
between the two. Also, I have not found any practical difference between
smokeless lube and BP lube when used with smokeless powder. Do use BP lube (it
is softer) if you are shooting BP.
I have also tried heel-base bullets, but have not had any success with any
powder, charge, type of case, or method of crimping. I personally don't think
that heel-base bullets are worth pursuing. The original Lyman/Ideal molds are
oversized for later guns. It is difficult to even chamber outside lubed
0.406"OD bullets in a 0.410"ID chamber. Crimping is difficult, too. If
you want to try them yourself, you need to shorten the cases. The originals are
0.932" long. Keep in mind that there these lengths are approximate. There
is more variation in 41LC cases than any other case I have worked with.
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Where to find components
Heel base and hollow base bullets: Huntingtons
I have not ordered any from here, yet.
Hollow base bullets only:
Wayne Doudna Good quality HB-RNL
at reasonable prices and a fast return.
Western Bullet Co. Good
quality, but slow (7 weeks).
Custom Cast Bullets &
Reloads I have not ordered from here, yet.
Heel Base bullets only:
The Bullet Lady Good
quality, but slow (6 weeks).
Bullets, brass, and dies:
Buffalo Arms Good quality, wide
selection, and fast.
Rapine 185gr hollow-base bullet mold #386185
Rapine Bullets Moulds
I have not ordered from here, yet.
Dies only:
Redding They make great
dies.
If you run across any Ideal/Lyman bullet molds for the 41 Colt, they are
numbered as follows:
* 386176 which is a 0.388/0.406"OD, 163gr RNL, heel-base for the 41Short
Colt, but will work in the 41LC.
* 386177 which is a 0.388/0.406"OD, 196gr RNL, heel-base for the 41LC.
* 386178 which is a 0.386"OD, 200gr RNL, hollow-base for the 41LC
(recommended, but make sure that they are made from very soft alloy --hard alloy
will NOT work).
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I hope that this helps you get that 41LC shooting again.
write
to Harry O
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